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Topic: EU Referendum Vote 23rd June 2016 - Will all hell break loose if we leave the EU?

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EU Referendum Vote 23rd June 2016 - Will all hell break loose if we leave the EU?

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Should we stay or should we leave the European Union?

Some say stay, some say leave.

I have listened to a lot of the spin and scaremongering. It seems apparent to me  that the faceless Establishment figures

want the United Kingdom to continue as a member of the European Community.

I cannot, for the life of me, get my head around throwing taxpayers' money at a failed project, that is, the EU.

Can the UK afford to prop up the failed economies of some EU member states? I don't think so.

Some spin doctors are working overtime to get their masters' messages across.

One of the messages being that if the UK leaves the EU then the NHS as one example will go belly up.

I'm sure the NHS speaks volumes for itself at the present time.

There is also  a lot of  bu11**** being spouted in an attempt to frighten the voters.

Even Jeremy Corbyn, when he made a speech supporting the Stay Campaign, wasn't one bit convincing. In his early

political career he was dead set against the EU.

Has someone put the frighteners on him too?

Many politicians say that the EU can be reformed from within and that the UK can bring about reform if we stay put.

That is a nonsense!

Even the reported £50 million pounds per day of our taxpayers' money, which the UK throws into the EU pot, is now being

disputed by some of  the Stay Campaigners. They reckon it is much less. I reckon it is currently much more than £50

million pounds. I would like to see the £50 million plus pounds a day pumped into the UK economy.

The banking scandal which occurred a few years ago was the last straw. The banks were bailed out to the tune of several

hundred billion pounds.

The people of the United Kingdom were then asked to tighten their belts. Did we have any choice?

And so began the cutbacks.

 

 

 

Will all hell break loose if we leave the EU?

 

 

No-one will ever convince me to support the Stay Campaign.

 

'Cameron, you're fired!'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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I'd like to see us leave,  There are a number of reasons why, but we wont leave as the Establishment will make sure we stay in, in order to continue to receive vast subsidies for land ownership the amounts received are based on acreage only. which is as follows for 2011. These figures from a freedom of information source

 

Revealed: what we paid out in 2011 to the landowners of the United Kingdom

 

The system of payments which includes the above equates to £245 per average household in the UK.

I have a friend who is a farmer, he owns several properties as well as a huge farm and he had to cancel an appointment with me in order to meet government officials at the farm because in his words "they want to give me £200,000" this was because he owned land, he doesn't need it but he took it any way...... He's voting to stay in, I wonder why.

The whole set up is perverse in my opinion and the junkets going on in Brussels leaves the British MP's scandal look like chicken feed.



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PS

I voted not to join in the first instance back in 1975 and if I remember correctly only South Yorkshire and I believe the Outer Hebrides were the only two districts to vote 'No'


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Looks as though the UK taxpayers are also keeping the landed gentry's benefits topped up.

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We seem to agree on lots of football matters Towdlad but we don't agree on this! I think leaving the EU would be madness. I have no time at all for the landed gentry by the way. My answer to that would would be to get shut of them, then the question of subsidies wouldn't arise. I just think it would be economic suicide to remove ourselves from such a powerful trading block. Yes, we can still trade with Europe if we exit but to do so we have to fall in line with EU requirements in so many respects that we might as well be in there to at least have some control of our destiny in shaping those requirements instead of having them imposed on us. Politically we would isolate ourselves by leaving. Geo-politically, we have to accept that what is going on in the world will still happen and that we can't simply barricade ourselves in and pretend we aren't a part of it all. We have to be in there pitching to influence the situations that are developing across the water from us, not building a Trump style wall around ourselves. Socially, despite what the Mail says more good has come from laws emanating from the EU than we would have ever got from the UK alone. I am not suggesting that the EU is a fine institution. I am saying though that it exists and will continue to exist, and that our fate is so intertwined with Europe that we must be instrumental in shaping and influencing it rather than cutting ourselves off from it.

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Let's look at Switzerland.

Together with Norway, Russia, Monaco, Croatia, and Ukraine among others, Switzerland is one of the many European countries which are not members of EU.


Another concern that restricts Switzerland from becoming a member of EU is its strict management of immigration. The Swiss were afraid that with the open door policy provided under the boundaries of EU, it may then bring about an overwhelming flow of European migrants coming to Switzerland looking for work in which the Swiss are not in favour of.


Switzerland prided itself for being able to support its farmers which are in contradiction to the no border and free import policies of EU. The Swiss are concerned that joining EU may endanger the livelihood of its farmers especially if they will not be able to compete with the cheaper priced products that are imported from other EU countries.


I'm still not convinced that we should continue to participate in the failed EU project.
Too many politicians are still in denial.







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ian
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My wife tells me what to do.

Why would I want someone else's wife in another country to tell her to tell me what to do.

All the politics and economics are going to be spun. Who can know the actual impact on their lives. The only thing that can be known is whether you believe in a Europe that is centralised , decentralised or UK only.

I'm certainly not for centralisation. What on earth would make me want to be further controlled by people I have a remote connection to and virtually no influence or stake in.

Why would I trust a huge organisation over a more local one.

I'm out for every good reason I can think of.

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I will likely vote to leave. The sheer hypocrisy that is being rammed down our throat that we are 'more secure' in it is an insult to mine and millions of others intelligence. While we do get some money back from the £38m a day, the cuts to the elderly needing care, continued attack on disabled people is sickening as we have to start looking after our own.

What does concern me is this country as years go by have less and less to sell, we are a small island with relatively poor resources and if we do leave we have to nail those trade agreements and quickly. For me its not about the economic migrants, if they have something to offer then let them - its about - as stated above - propping up the poorer nations of Europe which we are clearly doing both officially but also via the back door with people sending payments home. This has to stop.

This sounds really trivial, but I'm also interested in the impacts it will have on football. The FA are powerless at the minute from allowing the english game being flooded with bog standard average European players due to labour movement, this is having a massive impact on our own youngsters from not only breaking in but continuing beyond the U21 black hole. Take Grant Ward for example, a perfectly acceptable player to grace the bottom half championship clubs for years to come. When he goes back to Spurs he'll melt away into oblivion, unless someone snaps him up pretty quickly. It is trivial but for me being a youth coach and masterminding a change of career into coaching - its big personally. Vote leave and the FA will have more power to act on European players entering the english game.

Its a big decision though as our choice will affect our children / grandchildren probably more than us and there's too much crystal ball and political agenda going on. What is clear is that we're taking a gamble, but is that worse than the laughable 'deal' Cameron spent months sweet talking his Euro partners over?

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ian
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It might easily be that the amount of migrants is not " negatively impacted by an out vote" depending on the government of the day.

 

I am led to believe that Switzerland and Norway still have to accept free movement for access to the EU market.



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Heres a link to a few facts which dont exactly check out with what the £9,000,000 pro EU leaflet has been saying:

speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campaigns/the-government-s-eu-leaflet-fact-check-video

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Will the world come to an end if we leave the EU?
Will we be cast into a hell with no water to quench our thirsts if we dare to leave?


Don't believe all the hype.







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I think a lot of very questionable information has been presented nationally on both sides as 'fact'. I also think we can also agree that Camerons 'deal' was a joke. The truth is that nobody can predict with any real certainty what will happen if we exit. That is one of the problems with exiting. Financial markets don't like uncertainty, and as we know to all our costs the financial markets have a very real impact on our well being. I see all the arguments made including on here, and I re-examine my own position, but I still can not understand why as a waning world power we would choose to isolate ourselves from our economic and geographic neighbours in a world that is getting smaller and smaller as time goes by. The same game is going to go on all around us and is going to have a real impact on us whether we like it or not, so why not have the greatest possible say in what the rules are going to be? I am beginning to think that the vote will be won by the leave campaign and I really do think that would be a mistake.

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One of the out points is that we will be free to negotiate with the huge and growing economies of Australia-Africa-Asia, and the commonwealth.

I'm not sure if it's accurate to say we are a waning power as we still hold a tremendously powerful position that won't change just because we leave the EU.

People all round the world need what they need and want what they want and we don't really care about where it comes from. I guess this might be one advantage that a more competitive access to markets might bring

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It is right there is a focus on the financial, but Vote Leave is a vote for other things too just as important. Remain have only one argument based on finance. This basis of security is based on now and the near future though. There is just as much uncertainty with Remain in an ever closer union and the impact of propping up poorer nations plus the inclusion of Turkey & Ukraine. If we Remain we will be powerless but to bow down and SUMO (shut up and move on). I will vote Leave - the question people need to ask themselves if undecided is this. 'If we weren't in the EU right now would you vote to join it' I'm sure many wouldn't.

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ian
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Good point.

That should be part of the leave campaign.

The union of Europe makes less and less sense to me. It seems on one hand that we are bring duped into thinking we are part of a solution to a problem that's not ours. We are strong and don't start wars with our neighbours. The rest of Europe is weak or full of guilt about the wars.

We are better off out. We need to maintain our independent perspective

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Im an in vote, I like the power and strength in numbers. Can you imagine one Asda supermarket going it alone and having to renegotiate with its suppliers (5-10 years with Usa alone if you believe Obama). Having to have export licenses for every product to other European countries. Yes we do pay a great deal in but the schools and road structure in and around Rotherham have been greatly improved with EU money, there has been a great deal done in this area being a poorer area with EU money people just don't realise it. I like being a Yorkshire man I don't need to leave England, I like being an English man I don't need to leave the EU.

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Fliker wrote:

Im an in vote, I like the power and strength in numbers. Can you imagine one Asda supermarket going it alone and having to renegotiate with its suppliers (5-10 years with Usa alone if you believe Obama). Having to have export licenses for every product to other European countries. Yes we do pay a great deal in but the schools and road structure in and around Rotherham have been greatly improved with EU money, there has been a great deal done in this area being a poorer area with EU money people just don't realise it. I like being a Yorkshire man I don't need to leave England, I like being an English man I don't need to leave the EU.


Thanks for the back up Fliker.  I was up against it there numbers wise! 

I think you make a great point about the barriers we would have to overcome to be able to export into EU if we are outside it.  To get those licences we would need to make their standards just as we do now.  From a trade perspective, we gain nothing and can only lose by leaving.  And whilst Obama may have overplayed it a bit, the fact is that we aren't the power we once were.  Countries like the US, Canada, Japan, BRICS nations etc are not bound to want to trade with us when they have an option to trade with the EU as a block, which dwarfs us as an individual nation.

 

 



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I cant see the either/or logic about the trade situation.

Of course every country on earth will be falling over themselves to trade with the 5th biggest economy and a nation of 60 million consumers.

Its too black and white is all this. No one will turn down our money indeed everyone wants it. All the nations of the world manage on all manner of trade deals and set ups that are constantly renegotiated. I think Obama and the others promoting the in point of view do lend themselves to extreme logic. The UK has enormous wealth and business know how and being in the EU wont alter that. Many companies trade outside of the EU and would continue to do so and the story is no different inside. Of course it would be done differently but I cant believe for a moment people would turn down a good deal.

My main issue that clinches it for me is about the federalism and the way this infects not just the UK but all parts of a diverse Europe. The bureaucrats always take over and squash any dissent, or expression of difference. The EU is inherently corrupt and uncontrollable and this make it dangerous and not harmonious. Just look what is happening in the east of Europe. It is hardly any more stable or more peaceable because of European expansion. It seems to me that we are drifting into an extreme ideological super state and that is very bad news for the individual. The further away from influence we are from that which we are best placed to know about is not something I would ever give over to another.

One clincher for me was when I came across excerpts of Nigel Farage in the European sessions. The quality of debate was frightful and the answers and lack of democratic process is scandalous. Seriously, before I saw that I was undecided. After viewing many of them on youtube, and then listening to both sides it has become increasingly difficult to be swayed by all the labelling the pro movement throws out.

Thats where Im at anyway



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If memory serves me well Margaret Thatcher fell foul of the Europhiles both inside the British Establishment and Brussels.

She did not agree with the concept of the EU.

She therefore had to go. It was one of the factors which contributed to her demise.







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Every cloud. ..

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