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Topic: To knee or not to knee - that is the question

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To knee or not to knee - that is the question

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It appears to have become a standard feature of every Premier League game - everyone taking a knee in the form of a choreographed ritual.  Without venturing into a racial post, I'm just interested to know what the crowd reaction would be - if there was one of course. There are strong feelings on all sides of this issue but players are currently in very safe territory with no chance of an adverse crowd reaction. Such a demonstration at NYS might legitimately be met with a counter-claim that young white female lives matter, in light of relatively recent events. Personally, I'd rather footballers, like all other celebrities, would stay out of such issues. 



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Heard Ian Wright telling you why he's pro taking the knee & I'm thinking all lives matter so his argument doesn't convince me.



-- Edited by gwru on Sunday 21st of June 2020 10:03:52 PM

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I find all that taking a knee business very embarrassing. I wouldn't like to see it at NYS and I would much prefer sports people being given the option of making up their own minds on how they demonstrate their particular views. Sport should not be drawn into politics and sporting events should not be used to promote any political ideology. Its my guess that possibly quite a few players who are 'taking the knee' may not wish to do so, but feel they would be vilified if they didn't. I do worry that what is happening is very Orwellian and believe the woke Thought Police are on a roll at the moment. Hopefully it's just a fad.

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Not sure that by 'taking a knee' is appropriate now. It was a police officer's knee pressed against George Floyd's neck which led to his, George Floyd's, untimely and shocking death. The following video footage shows George Floyd being compliant when arrested by police officers. Notice how the police officers  take George Floyd from the place where he was first stopped in the vehicle and away from public view. I was appalled when I first saw this video footage. 

www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-investigation.html



-- Edited by wotsisname on Monday 22nd of June 2020 09:08:26 AM

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Simple this one. Definitely take the knee. When Black lives do matter then all lives matter. Join The BLM supporters who meet on Wednesday at 6pm outside the main gates of Clifton Park. Junction of Clifton Lane, Doncaster Rd, Doncaster Gate.

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whiston01 wrote:

Simple this one. Definitely take the knee. When Black lives do matter then all lives matter. Join The BLM supporters who meet on Wednesday at 6pm outside the main gates of Clifton Park. Junction of Clifton Lane, Doncaster Rd, Doncaster Gate.


 'When Black lives do matter then all lives matter.'  I like the sentiment that all lives matter. 

 

Look what happened when a 'white lives matter banner' flew over the Etihad during the clash between Burnley FC and Manchester City. 

Jake Hepple, who has previously been pictured with English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson claimed responsibility for the stunt. Writing on Facebook, the Lancashire local said: "'I'd like to take this time to apologise .. to absolutely f***ing nobody!'

He added, "It's now apparently racist to say white lives matter, the day after three white people got murdered in a park in Reading, but all we've seen on the TV is Black Lives Matter after George Floyd got murdered. What a mad world we live in."

 

I hope  the Wednesday meeting at Clifton Park goes off peacefully especially when the War Memorial is so close.



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They've been going off peacefully for a couple of weeks now.

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whiston01 wrote:

They've been going off peacefully for a couple of weeks now.


 Pardon my ignorance. I didn't know that. 



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Oliver Cromwell his statue been sprayed with graffiti. BLM * sprayed on it. Time to show this is England. Get army in whatever it takes enough is enough. Ban BLM demonstrates/meetings. No more taking the knee that's taking the *

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To be honest I have not took much notice of this BLM more important things are happening with this virus people can't get access to NHS treatment losing their jobs. I am expecting war memorials to targeted next up to this useless government to do something if our Foreign Secretary is not going to bend his knee I think I will join him. These statues are part of our history you might not like what they represent but whatever argument you may have painting them or pulling them down will not win over a lot of people.

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There is only one person taking the p*** here Gwru and that is you after that disgusting post. I am not sure i am correct in posting this on the football section, as it should be o/T. However, i am calling the moderators/owners to ban you from the site after that last post. I posted a poor post when i was being trivial about mental health around Christmas and asked the moderators and owners to consider banning myself from the site.

BLM exists to campaign against the systematic racism that still exists in pockets of British society. Economic and social inequality still affect swathes of our black and other minority communities. BLM exists to lobby against racism. Racism is a pandemic we have to get rid of if we want a fairer society. Ian Wright, still today receives scores of abusive texts and e/mails because he is a black man !!

Black people are 4 times more likely to be stopped by police in the West Midlands and 12 times more likely to be stopped in Sussex. We should be appalled by police brutality against people of colour worldwide. Gwru says 'Get the army in' a bit like what we did in bygone days. Show the Johnny Foreigner who is the master eh Gwru. Surely there can be no place for views like his on a decent site like this.

I will repeat again. When Black lives do matter then all lives will matter. Putting will in this time makes it read better.

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So BLM whatever you want to call them can vandalise our history. Who fought in world wars for this country not them. Too many do-gooders in this country now. This is England. Our laws. Time to enforce them.

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You are a racist. Time to remove you.

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Racism is about more than people being insulted in the street or over social media, although that is bad enough. It is about things like quality of education and equal opportunity, and the fact that the lack of those things feeds into poverty and health inequality. It becomes a self-perpetuating cycle and, as Whiston01 points out, becomes systematic whether consciously or otherwise. Racism truly is a scourge on society. In the COVID19 pandemic the virus ha**** disproportionately hard at people who live in poverty, and to what should be our shame as a society that means that it ha**** disproportionately hard at our ethnic minorities. As did austerity for years previously and the world in general for centuries before that. The George Floyd incident was a spark that lit a flame that has been burning quietly for a long, long time.

Pulling down a statue is only really symbolic - an immediate way to vent steam and make a point. It will not solve the problem and may or may not advance the cause. 'Taking the knee' is in many ways more powerful particularly when done by high profile individuals and I think even more when done by high profile white people. So I can see why it has become a pre-match ritual. Having said that, I wouldn't criticise anyone who doesn't want to do it and I see the point made by Glenn and others, which is that people shouldn't feel compelled to. That is a fair point. Individuals should feel free to express themselves as they see fit. It wouldn't follow that a player who chooses not to take the knee was not sympathetic to the cause - that would be over-simplistic- but you can imagine what the media and public would make of it.

Of course, racism isn't the only ill in society that we need to address. There are many others. There needn't be a competition between one good cause and another.



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gwru wrote:

So BLM whatever you want to call them can vandalise our history. Who fought in world wars for this country not them. Too many do-gooders in this country now. This is England. Our laws. Time to enforce them.


 You are embarrassing yourself gwru with your clumsy and frankly vile posts.  You are a one-man melting pot for faux patriotism, fear and hate and have no idea how to find a civilised way through it.  Sadly there are many like you, but my belief is that you are in a minority and represent the past, not a hopefully brighter future.



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smiler wrote:
gwru wrote:

So BLM whatever you want to call them can vandalise our history. Who fought in world wars for this country not them. Too many do-gooders in this country now. This is England. Our laws. Time to enforce them.


 You are embarrassing yourself gwru with your clumsy and frankly vile posts.  You are a one-man melting pot for faux patriotism, fear and hate and have no idea how to find a civilised way through it.  Sadly there are many like you, but my belief is that you are in a minority and represent the past, not a hopefully brighter future.


 

Smiler, This is the same bloke who didn't want us doing pre season in Germany last year because of the war. We should hardly be surprised these are his views.



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whiston01 wrote:

There is only one person taking the p*** here Gwru and that is you after that disgusting post. I am not sure i am correct in posting this on the football section, as it should be o/T. However, i am calling the moderators/owners to ban you from the site after that last post. I posted a poor post when i was being trivial about mental health around Christmas and asked the moderators and owners to consider banning myself from the site.

BLM exists to campaign against the systematic racism that still exists in pockets of British society. Economic and social inequality still affect swathes of our black and other minority communities. BLM exists to lobby against racism. Racism is a pandemic we have to get rid of if we want a fairer society. Ian Wright, still today receives scores of abusive texts and e/mails because he is a black man !!

Black people are 4 times more likely to be stopped by police in the West Midlands and 12 times more likely to be stopped in Sussex. We should be appalled by police brutality against people of colour worldwide. Gwru says 'Get the army in' a bit like what we did in bygone days. Show the Johnny Foreigner who is the master eh Gwru. Surely there can be no place for views like his on a decent site like this.

I will repeat again. When Black lives do matter then all lives will matter. Putting will in this time makes it read better.


 Quite a bit O/T, but while I would agree in general with your post Whiston, it's my opinion great strides have been made here in the UK against racism during the last 40years and should not be overlooked.

I don't know your age, but I remember the 1950's onward and when I think back to the blatant racism we had in those days it would make any decent person sick with shame now.

I think we were reaching a point where the vast majority of people in the uk today were beginning not to see a coloured person but just another person. People, in my experience, seem to have become more enlightened towards the issue, as ignorance and fear of the 'foreigner', was beginning to give way to understanding and acceptance of others.

There is still a way to go, but it is my fear that the recent events could well undo the progress made and get peoples backs up (Gwru post as an example) and could see the rise of dreadful far right groups that we have had to shamefully endure in the past.

Unfortunately, I dont think we will ever eliminate racism altogether, (re your reference Ian Wright) there are always those who for some reason are always full of hate of others who are different, but I think these tactics employed of late are only going to create rifts between communities rather than build bridges. 



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I support gwru my uncle was killed just after the d day landings what for. I am not going to be lectured by people on here what to think. It has been proposed a 10 year prison sentence for desecrating statues can not come soon enough.

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TH MILLER wrote:

I support gwru my uncle was killed just after the d day landings what for. I am not going to be lectured by people on here what to think. It has been proposed a 10 year prison sentence for desecrating statues can not come soon enough.


 

Hardly surprising that you support him. you're more than likely the same person.



-- Edited by realmiller on Tuesday 23rd of June 2020 03:25:13 PM

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TH MILLER wrote:

I support gwru my uncle was killed just after the d day landings what for. I am not going to be lectured by people on here what to think. It has been proposed a 10 year prison sentence for desecrating statues can not come soon enough.


 Your uncle was killed fighting for a democratic way of life and freedom from oppression and tyranny.  And you support gwru, who wants to ban protests that he doesn't agree with and get the army out to crush dissent.  

Do you not see the irony?

Statues are a sideshow.  They should not be damaged, destroyed or vandalised.  We should have a grown up debate about symbolism and how we mark our history, good and bad.  But we should not let that distract us from the real issue, which is that in this day and age we should be able to move towards a common position where as humans we can rub along freely and as equals regardless of our ethnicity/skin colour.

 



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